Curse

Bob Slydell · May 04, 2010, 02:21 AM // 02:21

Quote:

Originally Posted by snaek

i am not very familiar with programming, but if they would be anything like the captcha codes from sites like rapidshare, there are programs that bypass those (i'm not sure exactly how, but one way or another they are bypassed).

It might be that somehow, maybe (I also don't know a TON about programming either) that the correct code might be stored client side, in this case, your browser's cookies and or cache, someone probably figured out how one for a particular website or the style it uses and is able to spoof them with a few simple lines of code, like just resending back the proper code without even entering it. You gotta think, it has to be cached on your machine somewhere before it is sent back.

For guild wars though, not sure how they would work it but I mean, it could still be a viable option....who knows..

Snorph · May 04, 2010, 02:22 AM // 02:22

While this has been an ougoing problem, but not just GW. I have several PC games, and even consoles where people cheat/hack.

There are several companies that sell cheat and hacking programs. There is no way to stop it. Example, EA, Battlefield 2, 2142, BFBC2, and others, trust me. I have been gamming for long as I can remember, and it's not getting better but worse.

Punkbuster is utter fail, and even things like combat arms which has a built in anti-cheat system that stops them, not.

Only way I see something like this being fixed in any game, make it so that the game is played on there servers only, with no modded exe's etc. Everything resides on the servers.

As long as we have access to exe's and game files directly on our hard drives, they can always and will be hacked.

EA or Anet comes out with bans, plus new build, 1000 more cheaters, and new programs come out.

So don't blame Anet, blame the community, the kiddies that can't play games worth shit because they suck and have to cheat too win. Case and fact.

Bob Slydell · May 04, 2010, 02:26 AM // 02:26

Quote:

Originally Posted by Snorph

While this has been an ougoing problem, but not just GW. I have several PC games, and even consoles where people cheat/hack.

There are several companies that sell cheat and hacking programs. There is no way to stop it. Example, EA, Battlefield 2, 2142, BFBC2, and others, trust me. I have been gamming for long as I can remember, and it's not getting better but worse.

Punkbuster is utter fail, and even things like combat arms which has a built in anti-cheat system that stops them, not.

Only way I see something like this being fixed in any game, make it so that the game is played on there servers only, with no modded exe's etc. Everything resides on the servers.

As long as we have access to exe's and game files directly on our hard drives, they can always and will be hacked.

EA or Anet comes out with bans, plus new build, 1000 more cheaters, and new programs come out.

So don't blame Anet, blame the community, the kiddies that can't play games worth shit because they suck and have to cheat too win. Case and fact.

Indeed. It's a shame, I only started to enjoy MW2 and the other day I got raped by some dumb**** using a wallhack... it's pretty stupid. Plus, most of the time they are already maxed out level and have every gun you can get...I don't understand why you would cheat, when you will never get money for it. Same for GW. Sure...you will get in game prizes and items and money without being at the comp, but in the end what is it really for?

And I also like the punkbuster comment, haha. I hate PB, if anything - i've never seen it kick a cheater, but it has no problem kicking me for a "disallowed program/driver" like steam or my freaking video driver.

snaek · May 04, 2010, 02:42 AM // 02:42

Quote:

Originally Posted by snorph

There are several companies that sell cheat and hacking programs. There is no way to stop it. Example, EA, Battlefield 2, 2142, BFBC2, and others, trust me. I have been gamming for long as I can remember, and it's not getting better but worse

the last fps game i played online was cs, which was a highly competitive one. sure you'd come across cheaters in pug servers, but admins can easily ban them (or players vote kicking if the server has that option), or users can easily change servers. in gaming leagues however, cheating was less of a problem. all matches were recorded and cheaters would get reported and dq'd.

in terms of gw, all tournaments are automated. and only a handful of the matches are put up on obs mode. i can't tell you from personal experience, but i've heard that many people have botted in the mat. aside from that, the report function in gw is a complete joke.

Perfected Shadow · May 04, 2010, 02:44 AM // 02:44

Quote:

Originally Posted by II Lucky Charm II

Since Anet isn't doing anything about this, it's only logical that you join the botters.

I tried but with my failping the rupt script (at 0 delay) failed repeatedly to rupt 3/4 sec casts with point blank magebane/savage/dshots.

Since I can't join them, /signed to QQ instead

Snorph · May 04, 2010, 02:52 AM // 02:52

You actually expect me to believe that recording and reporting cheaters/hackers they do something?

LOL, not even, I was in a clan and we reported cheater, you know what? They didn't do anything.

snaek · May 04, 2010, 02:57 AM // 02:57

Quote:

Originally Posted by Snorph

You actually expect me to believe that recording and reporting cheaters/hackers they do something?

LOL, not even, I was in a clan and we reported cheater, you know what? They didn't do anything.

what game/league? i guess it depends on how high up you go. just imagine trying to cheat in a korean sc tournament where its played locally over lan. which kind of makes you re-think if gw is actually competitive or not now with all the botting at supposed 'high-level' play.

**Marty Silverblade** · May 04, 2010, 03:12 AM // 03:12

Well, /signed for something to be done. Whether it actually does (and makes a difference) is another matter, however.

spun ducky · May 04, 2010, 03:19 AM // 03:19

Quote:

Originally Posted by Karate Jesus

Unfortunately, I really doubt Anet would want to re-design their launch client, which would be my suggestion. And, honestly, that wouldn't stop anything except .dll injections (about 50% of the bots).

Oh, and from what I hear the client itself is a huge mess, so there may be no point in them even attempting it.

A change to how the game launches would not affect anything just a few lines of code would need to be changed to adjust for it. The root of the problem is in the software architecture used for modern operating systems. I have written a lot of various memory hacks, dll injection, wrappers, and yes even kernel hooks. I have not done all that much with gw but the very nature of a program in windows allows endless methods to alter a program.

They could change the launcher and many parts of how gw works and it would only take me a few days at most to have a work around for the .dll injected bots. That is if that is the method you are planning to use since a bot doesn't need a .dll to work. The point is this late in the game nothing is going to happen and the games architecture is well known now from years of reverse engineering. One of the best anticheats now a days for online games is simply just release a new game that is different enough to require all the work again which is a bonus effect of gw2 and I bet anet knows it.

Axel Zinfandel · May 04, 2010, 03:39 AM // 03:39

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rhunex

/not signed

ANet is currently working on a solution:
Yay Solutions!

Guild Wars is old, and the people making bots for GW have had 5 years to 'perfect' their craft. Even if ANet somehow finds a panacea for the current infestation of bots, it will be (literally) hours before a new release is out. The people running the bots don't, and usually aren't, intelligent. The people making the bots, however, are crafty devils who wait for developers to give them a new challenge. Once a challenge is issued, it has to be solved.

I agree that PvP sucks a bit in GW now, but if it upsets you that much, perhaps you should abstain from logging in for a week(or two), cool down, and <insert it's just a game comment here>.

GvG is still valid, and you can humiliate any guild who uses bots in an obvious fashion. Better yet, you can fight guilds you know/like, which offers plenty of opportunities.

To me, though, this is like going on D2 and whining that people are still duping. It's an old game, there were unforeseen loopholes in the code, and people will continue exploiting it. Same goes for GW.

THIS. It's an old game, and above all they've already given they're answers before. They aren't going to change the entire coding and building blocks of the game JUST to stop botting. It happens, and especially moreso with old games like this. When is the last time you have seen a game as old as this implement something that flat out STOPS botting and the like?

/not signed

Thevil King · May 04, 2010, 03:56 AM // 03:56

lol why is there even a discussion on this.
eula=legal contract.
advocating botting or any of the like=against eula= an offense.
by not signing and giving arguments for it you are in essence saying we should break the law and here are the reasons why:

1. im legit and im good so it does not concern me, aka i didnt commit a crime therefore it is ok for other people to commit crime and get away with it.

2. anet most likely will not respond so why bother, aka law enforcement is incompetent therefore we should just let crimes slip.

3. old game argument. yes, because the game is old lets allow offenses to happen. now i wonder what would happen if a politician said this about the law?

4. technical/logistic problems, aka im going to post a bunch of academic technobabble and/or esoteric philosophizing and conjure up random arguments which in essence says nothing and promote/permit botting and other such offences

so to summarize, to even discuss about how to permit botting or the like is clearly admitting that breaking the law is fine. now idk about you ppl, but if you are going to apply this kind of demented logic anywhere in rl, then gg.

Darth The Xx · May 04, 2010, 03:59 AM // 03:59

Simple solution, actually look at bot reports.

The difference between a bot and a good rupter is so glaringly obvious its really a non-factor if you just watch players for a minute or two.

ightgg · May 04, 2010, 04:00 AM // 04:00

Quote:

Originally Posted by Thevil King

lol why is there even a discussion on this.
eula=legal contract.
advocating botting or any of the like=against eula= an offense.
by not signing and giving arguments for it you are in essence saying we should break the law and here are the reasons why:

1. im legit and im good so it does not concern me, aka i didnt commit a crime therefore it is ok for other people to commit crime and get away with it.

2. anet most likely will not respond so why bother, aka law enforcement is incompetent therefore we should just let crimes slip.

3. technical/logistic problems, aka im going to post a bunch of academic technobabble and/or esoteric philosophizing and conjure up random arguments which in essence says nothing and promote/permit botting and other such offences

so to summarize, to even discuss about how to permit botting or the like is clearly admitting that breaking the law is fine. now idk about you ppl, but if you are going to apply this kind of demented logic anywhere in rl, then gg.

this made me laugh and is totally inaccurate. this is from a member that believes that gwguru is an anet affiliate when anet itself denies any connection. as do gwguru admins. please refrain from this ignorance in the future as many admins have condemned me for making the same "assumptions". bots will exist and are obviously better then players, get over it.

Thevil King · May 04, 2010, 04:13 AM // 04:13

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dont Cause Drama

this made me laugh and is totally inaccurate. this is from a member that believes that gwguru is an anet affiliate when anet itself denies any connection. as do gwguru admins. please refrain from this ignorance in the future as many admins have condemned me for making the same "assumptions". bots will exist and are obviously better then players, get over it.

i appreciate your effort to troll me, but please maybe at least grasp a basic understanding of logic first. spewing out fallacies like personal attacks on me will not help improve ur argument, nor does it enhance any validity of pro-botting.

tbh idc about gw or guru or admins, if they want to condemn me for saying the obvious truth, then go ahead. ive had a couple of incidents with mods (from other forums) and they do not affect me. if u are going to say that breaking the law is ok, and mods support you, then thats not my problem.

however, this is the internet and hiding behind a computer screen and projecting fallacious arguments will not do any good. bots will exist? no shit they do, thats just like saying people will commit crimes. and from ur statement, you seem to be quite acquainted with bots/botters, perhaps you are one of them?

Martin Alvito · May 04, 2010, 04:15 AM // 04:15

Quote:

Originally Posted by Thevil King

eula=legal contract.
advocating botting or any of the like=against eula= an offense.
by not signing and giving arguments for it you are in essence saying we should break the law and here are the reasons why:

This is incorrect. For clarity: botting is against the Rules of Conduct. ANet can take action against you up to and including banning your account. Botting is not illegal. You cannot face criminal or civil penalties for botting.

In response to your complaint: I'm not advocating botting and never have been. I've never used a bot in any game. I just don't enjoy rewards when I cheat to get them. Simple.

However, I am advocating that you be realistic about the problem and the likely response. The prospective benefits from an endeavor aren't always worth the costs. We live in the real world, not some idealized fantasyland where justice is always served because the police have infinite resources with which to catch crooks. The fact that botting is wrong and against the rules does not necessarily imply that ANet should drop other projects to resolve the problem.

Thevil King · May 04, 2010, 04:28 AM // 04:28

Quote:

Originally Posted by Martin Alvito

This is incorrect. For clarity: botting is against the Rules of Conduct. ANet can take action against you up to and including banning your account. Botting is not illegal. You cannot face criminal or civil penalties for botting.

In response to your complaint: I'm not advocating botting and never have been. I've never used a bot in any game. I just don't enjoy rewards when I cheat to get them. Simple.

However, I am advocating that you be realistic about the problem and the likely response. The prospective benefits from an endeavor aren't always worth the costs. We live in the real world, not some idealized fantasyland where justice is always served because the police have infinite resources with which to catch crooks. The fact that botting is wrong and against the rules does not necessarily imply that ANet should drop other projects to resolve the problem.

i am not saying breaching a rule of conduct in game is exactly the same as breaking the law irl. what im trying to draw from the analogy is the same logic that is being applied to both, if you would like to argue against that then go ahead.

by any means, i am not delusional to think that anet will do anything or anything will ever happen to fix the problem. i AM being realistic, in the knowledge that botting will happen, and most likely people will get away with it. but that does absolutely nothing to say that botting is right, which is what im trying to get at in my first post. idk if people with ulterior motives want to twist my words or anything, but plz note: i am not advocating any action, i am only considering the nature of things, what people do with it is beyond me.

Danny Used Frenzy · May 04, 2010, 04:36 AM // 04:36

Quote:

Originally Posted by Karate Jesus

Unfortunately, I really doubt Anet would want to re-design their launch client, which would be my suggestion. And, honestly, that wouldn't stop anything except .dll injections (about 50% of the bots).

Oh, and from what I hear the client itself is a huge mess, so there may be no point in them even attempting it.

I'm not sure if this has been brought up before, but the client is so poorly designed that it takes hours to even change the numbers in a single skill - this is why small balance tweaks don't happen.

If they haven't fixed the client to accommodate regular skill updates, I'm entirely unconvinced that they'd be willing to do so simply to stop botting at this point in the game's life.

There are solutions to stopping botting, but even then, that only stops one type of botting. I've seen scripts that entirely use just the UI, no dll's, and there's little to no way to stop those. (It's entirely possible to even bot Raptor's, Vaettir's, ToPK, RA, and JQ using macro-type utilities.)

QueenofDeath · May 04, 2010, 04:46 AM // 04:46

Quote:

and I hope you are doing a better job of keeping them out of GW2 then you are currently doing in GWs.

Now since they haven't done any good in 5 years with this version what makes you think they are going to do any better in GW2. I love these hope and wishes threads because they never qualify anything and deal with delusions that things will get better. The botting issues are one of the major reasons I won't buy into GW2 nor recommend to anyone or that anyone comes back to GW and wastes their money on it.

As long as you have free to play no monthly fee games you will have this kind of riff raff and in hordes just like it is now. Start charging and these botters will disappear rapidly because it eats into their profits.

spun ducky · May 04, 2010, 04:52 AM // 04:52

EULA's can't be enforced in almost all situations and also in a lot of places the EULA is not a legal binding contract that is honored. It's purpose is not to tell the player what they can and can't do but basically protect the developer from any legal claims.

So to sum it up the EULA isn't worth the bits its made of when it comes to enforcing 'Rules' and the game companies know it. Why do you think they rather just ban/suspend an account rather than sue the pants off a person in violation?

R_Frost · May 04, 2010, 04:54 AM // 04:54

Quote:

Originally Posted by Crazy monk Cro

/signed ...5000000 of us gave them 200$ for the fcking game...and now they dont whant to bother....seems like they dont give fck about us now when we bought the game...

--------------------GW2---------------------same?!?

lol.................simple math says there never was 5,000,000 players. somewhere around 6 million copies sold was one of Anet's press releases a year or so ago. if everyone had all 4 games thats only 1,500,000 unique accounts. of course we know not everyone has all 4 games and we know people have multiple accounts from the early stages in the game before character slots came availible and also from farming z-keys with the pvp bets.